The idea of "true will", as well as many other aspects of Crowley's philosophy are hardly unique to, or originated with, Crowley. One can look to the Stoics or, better yet, the Socratics for a teleological view on life. Socrates and Aristotle were all about finding your purpose so as to engage in the Good and the Beautiful. There are also a few references to this in the Zohar. The Aurum Solis (and I personally don't buy into the late 1800s date its official history gives the order) uses the idea as well, and has explicitly rejected Crowley and Liber Legis.

One then might ask what makes Thelema Thelema, as opposed to the other philosophical/mystical/religious systems that also promote the following of the will. Is it the demand for only following the will (and this might be implicit in the Socratics and Neoplatonists)? Is it the layers of mythos Crowley built on top of the combined philosophies represented in Thelema? Is it acceptance of the Book of the Law (which implies some of the above)? Is it a combination of these things?

This goes to the label question. Which is to ask are these other philosophies (etc.) that espouse the idea of the will and following it necessarily Thelemic simply for that or is there perhaps some other descriptor better suited to them?

peace
-j

Whatever you wish to call a person who follows his Will, so be it!
but, "Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word..."

Irregardless, the name-label doesn't matter at that point; because, if people are practicing their Wills in the manner The Book prescribes: well hell! I think "the people" will begin to see we're doin' things A LITTLE DIFFERANTLY.

and they will come to hate us, and they will fear us; and they will oppose us.

But we will be Victorious at Battle, because "the Joy of the World" is OUR'S

The slaves will serve, shall perish. Until there is none of them left, but US!!!

This is OUR WORLD, Not "Their's".

If you be a Thelemite at all: CONQUER

"success is thy proof."

93 Lucifer,

Interesting posts, but I hope you know there is an 'Edit' button to add on to your existing posts so you don't need to create 3 new ones...

I agree with most of what you say except "This is OUR WORLD, Not 'Their's"... That is simply setting up an Us vs. Them dichotomy that can be nothing but restrictive. That is just as much of a label as anything else.

If you bind nothing and have become 'chief of all,' what is there to conquer if You are coterminous with All? Then each moment is a joyful conquering, a rapturous union we know as Experience.

There is an interesting blog post on this exact topic here: http://iaurelian.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-is-do-what-thou-wilt.html

IAO131

Thanks for the comments, guys. My reading of Thelema is non-dualistic, too.

Lucifer notes, "There will be those who oppose it (THEM), and those that don't (Us)."

In a sense that is correct, but reality is very rarely so black and white. The biggest obstacle to the accomplishment of one's will is usually oneself, not external restriction. And certainly there are people who are strong in will and freedom who would be repelled by the symbolism and "supernatural" elements of Crowley's "religion."

That's why (to return to my topic), I think "Thelema" in its current form can be more of a hindrance than a help when promulgating the Law. Maybe I should phrase my topic like this: *other* than promoting the Crowleyan religion, what can we do to promote freedom and the accomplishment of will?

In other words, how can we encourage the existence of more Thelemites who don't call themselves Thelemites?

I like the thread so far!

For me the 'freaky stuff' is what makes personal work and self-psychology fun.

My fiance, who has not one iota of religious bent, is studying to be a psychologist (or maybe psychiatrist!).

When she asked what I was doing in my robe, with a sword, etc, I just put it as plainly as I could. It's the 'dress up' part to get the conscious mind to open up so you can deal with the subconscious, so you can get down to the nitty gritty. The ritual trappings have connections on all levels that bring about certain changes in accordance with Will.

It seemed a good enough explanation for her. She is, without knowing it, quite the Thelemite. She has no religious rules backing her, no 'creed', but simply works to better herself and others around her while doing her best not to screw the world up.

I can't think of a better way to put it.

[Note: IAO 131 -- I forgot to logon earlier. Please disregard this same post I made as "Anonymous"]

Excellent responses, everyone.

I would like to comment on IAO131's following point: "The appeal of Thelema and philosophers like Nietzsche are that they contradict some of our most beloved ideals and therefore allow us to understand ourselves that much better, to conquer our fears, to destroy every last pre-supposition. One cannot find the gold in the dross without going through the fire."

This is absolutely right -- it is essential that people come to "attack their convictions," as Nietzsche advised. In suggesting that we downplay the "freaky parts," I in no way meant to imply that we should be encouraging others to be comfortable in their Old Aeonic ways of thinking.

Rather, I just want to point out that the "freaky parts" of Thelema (what a charmingly funny phrase that is) are not for everyone who is strong in Will -- and in fact, these freaky parts may not be for most people who are strong in Will.

I can very easily imagine a strong-willed individual scoffing at magick and mysticism and "holy books."

I guess my point is this: If we actually want to "spread the word" of Thelema, we will get nowhere thumping the Book of the Law or trying to convince people to attend a "Gnostic Mass."

So what are we to do? Shaboboo made this point earlier: "I don't really believe in preaching thelema, but by setting a good example, leading a good life according to your will you may get asked now and then 'how do you do it?'. thats when you tell about will."

To encourage by example is probably the best advice. That is, by the way, what the followers of Christ were supposed to do...perhaps if they more successfully emulated their leader, the world would be a better place...perhaps not.

At any rate, the other idea that occurs to me is music. Music spreads ideas more easily than any other medium through popular consciousness. I know there have been a few rock bands with members who were Thelemic, but I think we're all still waiting for the first really good Thelemic rapper to come along.

I know we have several musicians here in the forums. We should start a Thelemic music thread.

"This leads to another question I think. If "Do what thou wilt" is the whole of the law, what need the rest of Liber Legis or any of the other trappings of Thelema?"

The Buddha described his teachings as a raft to reach the Other Shore of Nirvana.

If a man were to cross on a raft to another shore and, after landing, carry the raft everywhere he went, revering it, would he not be a fool? So it is with one who insists on clinging to the teachings after attainment.

Meditate on this as you burn your copy of Liber Legis. ;)

93,

Yes, it does. And it is certainly not 'oft ignored.' I've had it quoted to me personally about 10 times in the last few months.

People don't ever bother to read the 11 words that begin the Comment and the "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt" that end it and instead still slavishly follow the commands of others to shun people and burn things. Also, many don't consider the metaphorical meaning of burning something up in the Flame of Spirit.

The usefulness of Liber AL is different for each star. I think that "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" is the entirety of Thelema, but there are also a billion different lessons contained in Liber AL. The 'creation' story for love's sake in Liber AL I:28-30 cuts across all these theodicies (I call it theoidiocy) about why there is Evil & Conflict in the world (in just three lines). "Success is your proof" cuts across arguments in four words. There are infinite revelations to be found in Liber AL but also, it reminds one that THELEMA is the only law, so you don't get confounded in the many other words.

IAO131

"To encourage by example is probably the best advice. That is, by the way, what the followers of Christ were supposed to do...perhaps if they more successfully emulated their leader, the world would be a better place...perhaps not."- Alastor

the last aeon was for "the fisher's of men" to catch each other on their hooks. This one, not so much. It's more about establishing your dominion than being a "catcher of men". Establishing that dominion may have something more to do with conquering than catching them on a fishing pole.
-------------------------------------
Looking for a Thelemic Rapper?

http://www.myspace.com/scholar

93,

Jeffrey wrote, "This leads to another question I think. If "Do what thou wilt" is the whole of the law, what need the rest of Liber Legis or any of the other trappings of Thelema?"

That would be like saying to a Christian: Jesus says to love God and your neighbor as yourself are the two commandments. Why should there be other writings?

I answer that although 'There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt,' Liber AL contains many mysteries for people to reveal about philosophy, religion, mysticism, and magick. There are formulae for magick, a clear approach to philosophy, a religious framework, mystical truths, an outline for a practical way of life, and more. All of this certainly springs from Do what thou wilt but it also helps to shape the message in more depth.

IAO131